iPodDailyNews - Where iPod news comes first

Mar 06, 10 - 12:35 pm Comment from: Mac4lfe

Can a class action lawsuit be base on a promise?

Mar 06, 10 - 12:36 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Everyone who currently enjoys tethering on AT&T and are using something other than an iPhone, would consider buying one and drop their current 60-dollar plan.

What're we talking here, a billion in lost revenue?

I see Rogers in Canada got something right. My heart goes out to my neighbours to my south!

Mar 06, 10 - 12:42 pm Comment from: An Optimist

AT&T has broken many promises over the years. It's time they were held accountable.

If it were up to me, Ed Whitacre would be sharing a prison cell with the WorldCom guys, instead of running General Motors.

Mar 06, 10 - 12:44 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Some of the most prolific class-action law suits were founded on failure to deliver what was promised.

The fact that AT&T has publicly stated they would offer tethering two-years ago and have failed to deliver is just incredibly stupid on their part.

There is just no excuse, unless of course they made several billion dollars in the last couple of years by not implementing tethering to the iPhone customer, in which case, they can afford the risky litigation.

But, in the meantime they will have damaged the brand.

Mar 06, 10 - 12:50 pm Comment from: Shadowself

@Mac4lfe:

Yes, you can sue -- and win -- on based upon an obviously unfulfilled promise.

AT&T;has been promising tethering for almost two years. They have never offered it, but still continue to say that it is coming. I'm certain there are people who bought iPhones partly based upon being able to use an iPhone to tether their laptop. Why am I certain? Because I'm one.

The iPhone screen is good, but sometimes you need more screen real estate for certain tasks -- and are no where near a WiFi hotspot.

In general I'm against lawsuits -- and vehemently against class action lawsuits. Virtually all the time the only persons who make out in those cases are the lawyers themselves. Clients get pennies and lawyers get rich (with 25 to 40% of the multi million dollar award going to the lawyers [plus recouping all their costs in addition to the fees] and the rest getting divided among the full class typically ending up with at most tens of dollars per member of the class).

However, in this case there must be some way to force AT&T;to stop putting this off. Maybe a class action lawsuit is the only way.

I'm in.

Am I going to be forced to jail break my iPhone to tether an iPad, after 2 1/2 years of not going there, just to tether another device to my mobile data plan? Let me pay a reasonable tethering fee, or collect nothing but resentment and disloyalty. I feel it is conspiratorial greed to force a second data plan on the user who is only using 1 device (to consume data) at a time.

Mar 06, 10 - 01:00 pm Comment from: HueyLong

MDN needs to add a poll of those iPhone users who'd support a class action lawsuit - I know I would support such a move, despite being against the litigious nature of the US.

I'm in too!

OK, we all know that AT&T;is what they are - as so often cleverly characterized by MDN.

What I don't understand is why Steve Jobs keeps getting a pass on the fiasco of lone partnership with this lousy phone company. My iPhones are of use to me only part of the time. The rest of the time, they are useless unless I want to play some stupid game.

In the category of "can do no wrong" there is no member of higher standing that this guy. And, it is total bovine excrement.

I'll give u a hint; they can't figure out how to implement it

Mar 06, 10 - 01:08 pm Comment from: WTFrank

Try a class action suit where there are three parties separately suing, each with their own law firm. Each law firm has an agreement of 30% of the settlement. They join together, win and the clients get 10%.

Simple math, 10% of a Million is 100,000. divided by 10 is 10,000. Now factor in hundreds of people, the lawyers get rich no matter what, the clients get a gift certificate at the Apple store for up to a $30.00 purchase.

Mar 06, 10 - 01:14 pm Comment from: hardmanb

Tethering will come. It is technologically inevitable.

The problem is that allowing tethering to a paradigm-busting development such as the iPhone (or iPad) in the US, is that it will require the evolution of new pricing and supply models. It will come, but there will be mistakes, resentment, and howls before the economics and practicalities settle down.

This is a pricing and service problem that will change the entire industry and AT&T;is terrified of making customer-enraging mistakes, the impact on their operations as a carrier, and the economic consequences of this inevitable change. That said...it is time for AT&T;to start the process. If they handle it well, it could be a huge benefit. But it could also be a financial and public relations disaster.

Mar 06, 10 - 01:16 pm Comment from: KingMel

This is what I sent to them. Few people appear to be giving Apple sufficient credit for fostering fundamental change in the mobile device industry. But the iPhone paved the way for a unified, simplified wireless strategy with reduced bundled voice/data costs. Everyone else is frantically feeding on the effort and risks taken by Apple over the last few years.

Dear Sirs:
In your positions of leadership within a major corporation, you are obligated to fulfill the promises made on behalf of that entity. The iPhone tethering issue should have been resolved long ago. Please make it a personal priority.

I am not a person who believes in "something for nothing." But I am also a firm supported of simplicity and transparency. We have reached a point in the evolution of mobile wireless technology in which voice/data access should seamlessly support a range of electronic devices owned by a person or family. Extrapolating that thought even further, the company that intelligently packages general data access (wired and wireless) in a simple and cost-effective manner - voice, data, television, etc. - stands to gain a great deal of marketshare and long term customer loyalty.

With the iPhone and, soon, the iPad, Apple is charting the course of mobile electronics for the next decade. Your company has benefited financially from partnering with Apple on the iPhone rollout, showing that it is possible to be both customer-friendly and profitable. This is not the time to begin retreating from the progress forged during the early years of this partnership.

I'm generally against class action lawsuits as well, but i'd support this one - another avenue to slam AT&T;(that they actually monitor closely) is their Facebook fan page - they like to keep it "positive" so any comments that call them out get a pretty quick reply trying to spin it back into AT&T;'s favor.
Last time I was there I made a public bet with them that they wouldn't offer iPhone tethering before the 3G iPad was releases - And then - they'll blame the increased network traffic from the iPad for further justification for NOT allowing tethering!

Go cross post early & often.

I love the MacDailyNews outlook. Imagine just saying things like they are would be so popular. Keep up the good work.

I don't get it. Is MDN for AT&T;or for Verizon. Truthfully i think its good that they admitted it would be throwing gasoline on the fire. At least they are acknowledging the problem, but in true American form, we demand transparency. Let them fix the damn problem. I don't remember everyone holding Apple's feet to the fire when push messaging was late to the game by a whole year. and watch out AT&T;'s deployment of LTE is gonna be much faster than Verizon. They aren't going to make the same mistake twice.

Mar 06, 10 - 01:40 pm Comment from: Msavwah

It would have been nice to tether with my iPhone in a pinch but "NO"
my hope for the iPad is fading. I really want it to stream my iTunes library same as appletv does.
Apples decisions on their closed systems are starting to lose me. I will be looking hard at netbooks and the competitors tablets. I love apple but they are just pissing me off alot lately.

Class action lawsuits only benefit scum lawyers.

AT&T;is working to improve their network. They are spending billions on infrastructure. They have to lease cell tower space at "rip off" rates from landowners.

Like I've said before, if you have a better approach start your own wireless company and provide unlimited bandwidth, at 1 Gbps, on every inch of the globe, for $1 per month. Otherwise, STFU.

Alright, I get that you people are all pissed that tethering isn't available yet. But guess what? Neither Apple nor AT&T;have ever officially announced this functionality was coming in the U.S. It has never been advertised as a future feature (like MMS was). You're basing your arguments on interviews with executives where they basically say "Yes, someday that will come..." which is the equivalent of "stay tuned." They never promised anything more than that. There is no legal grounds for a lawsuit.

So we should sue Verizon for promising the iPhone on their network, so many times? And in their case there could be actual fraud involved, because it encouraged their customers to renew their contracts, locking them in for services never rendered?

@Mac4lfe

ANY lawsuit in the USA can be filed for ANY reason. Or, even, no reason at all.

I thought that tethering hack still worked? No jailbreak required.

I will be leaving AT&T;in favor of Verizon as soon as Verizon offers an iPhone. I'm so fed up with AT&T;'s inability to handle iPhone service. They just can't handle it.

Mar 06, 10 - 02:01 pm Comment from: ericdano

MDN likes Verizon for its internet cause:

1. they like red
2. they like a slower network

Apple is stuck with AT&T;because Verizon is not able to do voice and data at the same time. And Sprint and T-Mobile would just be crushed under the weight of having the iPhone......

Mar 06, 10 - 02:15 pm Comment from: ericdano

Also......I think it is really STUPID that AT&T;and Apple will not allow the iPad to be tethered to an iPhone. Why should I have to pay AT&T;twice for using their network?

I mean, I'm not going to be using my iPad and my iPhone for internet AT THE SAME TIME.

Simple solution would be that if the iPhone is in tethering mode, that the only data it gets are push notifications. Heck, Apple could even make themselves cooler by having those notifications PUSHED to the iPad regardless if you have that App installed. Like a little push notification box shows up and says "A Push Notification from the iPhone" or something.

Anyhow........but AT&T;and Apple suck for making us pay TWICE for using AT&T;. Steve Jobs, you fail.

Just so I'm clear, Canadian iPhone users can tether their future iPads to 3G network but USA users cannot?

"The iPhone screen is good, but sometimes you need more screen real estate for certain tasks -- and are no where near a WiFi hotspot."

this is why the iPad is going to sell like crazy.

Mar 06, 10 - 02:45 pm Comment from: Mac4lfe

Wanting a feature that is inevitable and awesome is one thing. Filing a lawsuit for something that you have not lost is another thing. No where in your contract with AT&T;did it say you would get tethering. I should file a lawsuit against my ex because she kept promising me sex but never delivered.

Mar 06, 10 - 02:45 pm Comment from: tom O'Connell

I wonder what would happen if every one of us filed a small claims court complaint against ATT for the full price of the phone and all fees paid them?

Even just a couple thousand of these with proper press coverage would rock the fools at ATT

tom

Mar 06, 10 - 02:46 pm Comment from: m159

My understanding is Verizon has steadfastly refused to let Apple retain control of the iPhone's range of functionality. They insist on their own iTunes-wannabe media store, music-store partnership with Rhapsody, V CAST Media Manager (whatever the fck that is), ringtones, etc. Can you imagine Apple agreeing to that? AT&T;asks no such concessions. Jobs is somewhat stuck with AT&T;in the US. I'm sure he's pressuring them to improve their service.

Mar 06, 10 - 02:59 pm Comment from: MDmac

@ Buckwheat
"I see Rogers in Canada got something right. My heart goes out to my neighbours to my south"

Yes, but not providing an "unlimited" Data Plan. Something that Rogers was hammered relentlessly for in the beginning.

Remember how we accused Rogers of ripping off Canadians by basically charging the same amount for so little data, i.e, 400MBs. Turns out we hardly every get to that level as AT&T;had witnessed in their first year with the iPhone 3G average usage.

Just google blackra1n

Mar 06, 10 - 03:34 pm Comment from: CircuitRider

Lawsuit? It's supply and demand, if people will pay it then companies will charge it. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. It's pretty simple. I for one could care less and will have an iPad two iPhones with data plans on all of them and if I need it, a laptop card too. Is that wrong to have to make my life easier?

Tethering works absolutely fine here in Finland with iPhone (carrier is Sonera), I use it for work on almost daily basis, never had any problems with it whatsoever.

Having said that..Sonera have their own rip-the-customer tricks up their sleeve, most carriers are just greedy pieces of sh***t, just in different bags

The iPhone is so popular here in the so-called-Nokia-land that you have to wait for it for weeks to get it from Sonera, you can pick any Nokia phone from the shelf instantly.

I think Nokia will give up the fight with smartphones in maybe 2-3 years and concentrate on cheap models which they sell in big volumes.

Email Sent!
http://i50.tinypic.com/2604e4k.jpg

Look at the Phen Phen lawyers. They are in trouble. They got their passports taken and can't leave the country.

Here is something from '07: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1186176214327

@Msavwah
"t would have been nice to tether with my iPhone in a pinch but "NO" my hope for the iPad is fading. I really want it to stream my iTunes library same as appletv does.

TV uses wi-fi to stream, not 3G. The base iPad has wi-fi, so you should have not problem with this function. Tethering has nothing to do with this.

"Apples decisions on their closed systems are starting to lose me. I will be looking hard at netbooks and the competitors tablets. I love apple but they are just pissing me off alot lately."

The tethering issue is ATT's. As noted, the iPhone tethers everywhere but in the U.S. because of ATT restrictions, not Apple's. Good luck with your netbook or other tablets; you'll be sorry. Apple's choice of ATT doesn't need to be debated here. Suffice it to say that ATT was the lesser of all U.S. carrier compromises. My take, based on your ignorance of iTunes streaming, is that you really don't know what you're talking about and just like to gripe.

PS- "alot" is two words: "a lot"

Mar 06, 10 - 05:34 pm Comment from: byronic

I want, I want, I want... This is surely the new religion in America...

I cannot imagine there is any reader of this post who is unaware of the issues AT&T;are facing in providing acceptable performance on their network as the iPhone population increases.

While it is reasonable, perhaps, to criticise AT&T;for underestimating the impact that the iPhone would have on their network and for making promises about tethering that they now, obviously, cannot honour, the level of data usage by iPhone customers has surprised everyone. Everyone!

Join the dots people. More data load on the network will result in worse performance for everyone. And, if you care to think about it, the broader issue is that of bandwidth availability within the spectrum allocated to mobile usage. The impact of the iPhone has been so far-reaching, that carriers are now starting to see that cellular mobile is going to have to accommodate a great deal of internet access that has previously been serviced by fixed networks.

Is there going to be enough bandwidth? At this stage, the answer is clearly no.

Does anyone grow to adulthood in America these days? Selfishness and irresponsibility seem to be the most prominent characteristics of what once was a great nation.

Grow up America!

Mar 06, 10 - 05:57 pm Comment from: TigerCliff

I'd forgotten about this AT&T;promise -- tethering "soon" and "it wouldn't be $60" (meaning something less). I imagine some customers took these promises into account when they purchased - certainly to varying degrees, but AT&T;has some liability.

Ya, AT&T;sucks. But I've had bad customer service experiences with all the major US carriers. I don't know if it's contract lock-in or what, but none of them seem to care about keeping customers happy.

Verizon will never get it's crappy store or media services integrated into the iPhone -- we don't want it... we just want your crappy network as an option.

If AT&Ts;problem with tethering is bandwidth, then they should not take on the iPad!

Mar 06, 10 - 08:07 pm Comment from: alansky

AT&T;spokespeople are lying sacks of sh*t. It is patently absurd that virtually any old cell phone, as well as virtually every other smartphone, can be tethered to a computer—but not the iPhone!

If the iPhone ever comes to Verizon then I would actually stick with ATT for a couple of reasons:

1) ATT vs Verizon network data speed is directly proportional to iPhone penetration, which is directly proportional to socioeconomic demographics. San Francisco has very slow AT&T;bandwidth because of exceedingly high iPhone penetration, while AT&T;is actually faster in Atlanta compared to Verizon.

2) Many other users, particularly those in areas with high socioeconomic demographics, will switch to Verizon.

3) This, plus increased competitive pressure on AT&T;to increase network bandwidth, may ultimately have AT&T;come out ahead.

Sorry, but you can't spin this to make AT&T;look like the victim.

In the first place, they shouldn't have been irresponsible enough to promise tethering before they knew what impact the iPhone would have on their network.

Second, when they found out they couldn't deliver on their promise, they should have fessed up and said OH SHIT, SORRY EVERYBODY! OUR BAD.

That's giving them the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I think AT&T;already knew they couldn't/wouldn't deliver tethering when they promised it. Telecom companies are generally all lying bastards.

By the way, and the only reason AT&T;'s network has trouble dealing with all the load the iPhone puts on it is because the assholes refuse to upgrade it to an adequate level. Why? Not upgrading their network is alot cheaper than upgrading it. That's why.

Plus, they can and do use their congested network as an excuse to gouge their customers as much as possible.

If this sounds familiar to you, it's because most(if not all) of the major ISPs play the same game.

And you call us "selfish and irresponsible", for calling bullshit on a bunch bullshitters? Do you live on Bizarro World or something?

How are they going to listen If we email them?

I would like to know when this will ve available when I bought my iPhone the promise was that tethering would be available in late 2009 now there is no such date I hope you companies idea of a good buisness model is too lie and decieve your future customers into signing a two year contract with a promise that so far has not been fulfield if so as soon as my c my contract is up and i'm  sure millions of others as well will not be renewing with your service. I know I am just one person but sir in the larger picture we are all just one person.  
              

Mar 06, 10 - 09:25 pm Comment from: macerroneous

I predict ATT will enable tethering from iPhone for $30 extra monthly (same price as iPad) same day they release iPad 3G. There's no way an iPhone + tethered iPad will use more data than an iPhone + iPad which are not tethered. To make the equation work in ATT's favor, it needs to be bluetooth tethering, not wifi.

Mar 06, 10 - 10:46 pm Comment from: Msavwah

Spark I'm talking about two seperate things. I'm fully aware of how iTunes streaming and appletv work. What hasn't been clarified yet is if the iPad will stream iTunes over wifi like appletv does. Does the iPhone do that? No, that's what I'm concerned with.

And my gripe about 3g tethering is between iPhone and ipad.

Both of the above would be very consumer friendly and are what I have come to expect from apple of the past. They are slipping and they need to step it up.
Also I'm not concerned with my grammar on here, deal with it

Mar 06, 10 - 10:54 pm Comment from: An Optimist

Gary - AT&T's claims of spending billions of dollars on infrastructure are wildly inflated. Mostly, they are shuffling overpriced "enterprise-class" equipment around. It's an accounting trick, and you bought it - hook, line and sinker. It should be called by its proper name: fraud.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0512/082_print.html

Mar 06, 10 - 11:19 pm Comment from: Msavwah

And I mean out of the box apple designed.

Also I fully agree with the post above about being charged twice for iPhone and iPad 3g.
Comparision:
broadband at home, set up a network with a wireless router and connect as many devices as you want for no extra cost.
But can you share your 3g connection from your iPhone with your iPad? No, and why not? Because apple is entrenched with a telco now and they are no different than any other big business.

As alternatives, things like Clear and voip and roadrunner 4g look better and better.

There is no reason other than GREED that we won't be able to share our iPhone data plans with our iPads.
It's complete un-Apple-like BULLSHIT.
but whateva

Mar 07, 10 - 01:29 am Comment from: KingMel

@Msavwah
If you let your emotions drive you to PC netbooks and the like, then you will be making a mistake that will waste both time and money. But that's your choice.

My choice is to stick with the best available option and try to make it better.


@byronic
Has AT&T refused to accept additional customers because of their bandwidth/service issues? No? Then they are responsible for the consequences and their unfulfilled promises, no matter how vague. This is business - deliver the product or face losing customers in droves when someone else does. It is called competition. That is why the end of the AT&T iPhone exclusivity in the U.S. will be a good thing.

Also, I beg to differ with your overblown assertion than no one anticipated the big data surge resulting from the iPhone.

To MDNer's in general:
I have repeatedly made it clear in this forum that I have a healthy distrust of class action lawsuits. In general they enrich greedy lawyers, reward a few class action representatives with a modest amount of cash (typically ~$5,000 to $20,000 from the examples that I have seen), and pass on a token settlement to the "plaintiffs" - the people who were supposedly wronged and who deserve restitution. Class action lawsuits have their place and are, in some cases, necessary to aggregate sufficient power to deal with large organizations. But I do not believe that this tethering issue warrants class action status.

Keep working for improvement. But do not be too hasty to ask the government or the courts to fix things for you. You may not like their solutions.